Are the Good Ole Days Over?

From the Community…

• 
  Posted by Doktor Eevol Sun Jun 7, 2009 7:17am PDT

  frenchyfour, would you concede that MEN who can't find the art of being submissive and celebrating their wife have missed the boat as well? Why should women be the only ones to miss out on that great experienced you just waxed poetic about?

  And what about men who ignore their wives, would you also concede that they should also be blamed if their wife finds another man to give her the attention she deserves?

  Report Abuse
• 
  Posted by Liz Sun Jun 7, 2009 2:53pm PDT

  Wow. Dr. Eevol certainly gets around.

  Andrea, I think you said it though. It's free time that has made all the difference. And, as I said in another post, we're using all this free time in some pretty, petty ways. Shrinking out pregnancy bellies, demanding bigger engagement rings, obsessing about our bodies and bank accounts (I'm guilty too, by the way).

  BUT I also think we're THINKING, because we have the time to think and in doing so we're able to step back and consider how else we could be going about our lives and the kind fo society we want to build. This is a luxury that our grandparents and graet grandparents didn't have, for the most part. Yes, they were building a society, but they were so busy fighting wars for basic rights and food that they didn't have time to debate at length about what percentage of the chores their spouses should be responsible for and how many orgasms they felt entitled to. Some of the questions you asked in your blog are addressed by feminists, but depending on which branch of feminisim you speak to will determine the answer you get.

  I think it's unfair to blast a woman who chooses to be domestic, but I would ask her to consider if there is anything else she might be dreaming about or hoping for. Sometimes people haven't been awakened to the available alternatives. That can happen gently.

  My mother was a domestic superhero, until we graduated high school, and now she lives 1600 miles away from her kids and literally lives at her corporate job, flying home on weekends to say 'hi' to her new house-spouse. Kind of a 180 from her days on the prairie waiting for my dad to bring home the dead animals she would gut and cook up. I'm serious.

  So, we can romantasize 'the good ole days' but I don't think all parties involved were happy in their prescribed roles. If it had been more socially acceptable, I think some people would have prefered alternatives to Ozzie and Harriet.

  I think we're lucky to have the choice and we should embrace the choice instead of bashing each other for being the 'wrong' kind of man or woman. A little acceptance goes a long way.

  I'm psyched that the women in my generation have awakened to the concept that we don't have to have children! It's a refreshing choice to know that we have the freedom to pursue other experiences in life without having to wait until we've raised our kids. I just hope we do something amazing with the extra time we're giving oursleves. It's a process.

  Report Abuse
• 
  Posted by Liz Sun Jun 7, 2009 2:54pm PDT

  Go Mike! High Five!

  Report Abuse
• 
  Posted by fools_and_sages Sun Jun 7, 2009 4:35pm PDT

  Frenchyfour: Submission is the act, instance, or condition of submitting. Submit means to yield to the authority of another, to defer. You can check dictionary.com. And if this is what some people think marriage is all about, y'all can keep it-- because I don't think anybody should SUBMIT in a marriage. I think it's about compromising, not yielding to the authority or deferring to the power of one spouse. In a marriage, the man and the woman should be equally empowered to express their thoughts and needs and find a common ground on which to exist as a couple.

  SUBMITTING means one spouse has surrendered to the will of the other, follows their orders, and seeks approval for their performance. And I'm pretty sure Andrea Frazer would not support the idea of marriage as submission even if her womanly desires are piqued by her husband's sweaty form as he chops wood in the backyard.

  I don't think it's wrong for a woman to be attracted to a manly man. I also don't think it's wrong if she admits she doesn't like to do the kind of work that is traditionally called men's work. I also don't think it's wrong for men to like girly women or admit he doesn't like doing the kind of work that is traditionally reserved for women. But I also don't think it's awful to allow some flexibility in role expectations. If she has a degree and can earn more, then maybe he should stay home with the kids. If she knows how to fix the car and he doesn't, then let her fix the damn car! If he likes to chop wood, let him do it. But if he likes to to cook or doesn't mind doing laundry, then let him do that too!

  I think the problems begin when something isn't getting done or one spouse is overworked. In this day and age a two-income household is almost a requirement to enjoy a high standard of living, especially when there are several children involved. I don't think it's fair to a lot of women that they work a full-time job and they still get saddled with all the "woman's work" around the house. Last time I checked, most men have hands and feet. It's as easy for a man who has worked 40 hours to get out the vacuum and use it as is for woman. And it's not rocket science-- plug in the thing, turn it on, push it a little, and it sucks up stuff. Men should understand the connection between the ideas "plug", "push","turn on" and "suck"--and many do, just not in the context of housework.

  I also think problems arise when entitlement creeps into a relationship. If both spouses work full-time outside the home but she does all the housekeeping too, he often feels his manly needs get neglected. She's overworked and always tired and may not always look her best. So he's tempted to find some willing eye candy. It always amazes me how it often makes more sense to a man to look elsewhere for satisfaction but it might not dawn on him at all to assume some household responsibility so his wife might be willing and have enough energy to do it. It rarely occurs to him that she is going unsatisfied as well. Often, all he thinks is "I'm entitled to a clean house, clean clothes, well-behaved kids, and sex on demand with a woman who looks as good as she possibly can."

  This occurs because of gender stereotypes and gender hierarchies that make "women's work" mystically easier and less time-consuming than "men's work." These stereotypes and hierarchies also define "womanhood" in terms of looks and domesticity while "manhood" is deinfed almost entirely by providing. S, many men go to work, come home, maybe mow the lawn, take out the trash, or fix something. Other than that, he's sitting on the couch watching tv or in the yard with his buddies chatting.

  The only way to overcome this is to teach boys how to take care of a house when they are young. Those lessons stick and they learn that housework isn't the exclusive domain of women. The best men I've known can take care of themselves and their bachelor pad doesn't look like zoo animals live there. They are also the ones who go on to be equal partners in a relationship in every way they can be. My friends who married such guys 20 years ago are not divorced and infidelity has never been an issue. I haven't found one of these guys for myself yet. Maybe I'll get married when I do. Until then-- I'm not up for being a gender stereotype and living the way my parents still do today. That isn't for me.

  EQUALITY is where happiness resides. Submission just means the submissive spouse has to sacrifice everything for the other. How is that happiness?? See the movie Revolutionary Road where this idea is driven home in a big way.

  Report Abuse
• 
  Posted by fiction Mon Jun 8, 2009 10:05am PDT

  "4 inches is not the truth, but only two :-)"

  Silly me I have not understood for the first time what is with the chopping trees staff.

  By coincidence, I use to chop from time to time trees but this is completely literarily. So, in the first moment I take it completely literarily. In fact that stack of tree looks pretty much similar with the tree I chopped for fireplace. A strange coincidence indeed considering that here are not clues at all about myself.

  Anyway, there is another way to think about chopping trees lol I can't chop all the trees from a country by example and to transport all these trees in other countries. I simply can't ... is simply beyond my powers. And after all it is absurd because the Nature does not know about our arrangements and frontiers. But, other people probably can. So, why not, let's chop all trees. Why we negotiate about chopping only a part of them when the final is the same? So, I said to chop all of them. Who need trees after all?

  Important for us is to live better... the best we can, to maximum etc etc etc Our children can go to he11 but who cares? It is not our problem lol The deserts looks nice but only on Arakis planet lol. Witch is a pure fiction! And after this we cut all forms all vegetations. Why not? I meant, if we can... And after this we can eat ... fishes for example :-) And after this, or preferably, in the mid while, what the heck I say to chop all fishes from the seas. Who needs fishes after all? And so on... lol

  Probably I should learn to think like other persons do, in "two opposite directions" at the same time? To say "I love you", "I like you", "I need to kiss you" and "I simply can't live without you" to some mosquitoes trapped in my cobweb? Only because: "at least I can"? :-)

  lol

  Report Abuse
• 
  Posted by guesswho Mon Jun 8, 2009 2:20pm PDT

  I believe that women are now empowered with the understanding that their happiness does matter. I think that not every woman has to be completely happy to be in a marriage but it is more important to some women. I figure i would rather be alone than to be unhappy.

  Report Abuse