Do we live too long?

From the Community…

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  Posted by HawkeyeGirl Thu Jul 2, 2009 6:07am PDT

  I'm 31 and very healthy and have no reason to think I will die anytime soon, but I have made clear to my family and established a living will that I am NOT to be kept alive by artificial means. If I'm a vegetable, for the love of God, let me go! It's my time!

  I also have no problem with suicide or assisted suicide. Life and death is always an individual choice. Take a lifelong smoker or an obese person-they are slowly killing themselves,a nd they know it, so why is suicide any different?

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  Posted by Amanda Thu Jul 2, 2009 6:14am PDT

  My great-grandmother is 102 and is still almost completely independent. She takes no medication, can still carry on a conversation with you and remembers everyone's name. While I know that this is the exception and not the rule, I think that it is important that we remember that these are people that we are talking about. People who have lived long lives and have soo much to give to younger generations. Why do we treat them like they are a burden instead of a blessing?

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  Posted by fools_and_sages Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:08am PDT

  I've seen the effects of medicine prolonging life up close. One of my grandmothers was 93 when she died but she couldn't walk and couldn't take care of herself because of Parkinson's disease. The cruelty was that her mind was very sharp right up until the end so she was conscious of the things she couldn't do for herself anymore. Three years before she died, she started trying to kill herself with combinations of drugs and alcohol leading to low level overdoses that the paramedics brought her back from several times.

  When I asked her why she tried to commit suicide, she told me,"All of my friends are dead. My husband, best friend, sister, and mother have been dead for 30 years. All my other friends have been dead at least 10 years. I can't work. I can't drive. I can't walk. I can't cook for myself, do my own shopping, clean my own house, or bathe myself. I can barely change the channel on the tv using the remote. I'm not living. I'm existing. And I don't want to be here anymore." And that is more or less a direct quote because it was too shocking to fail to remember.

  It took us about 18 months to find a nursing home that would accept medicare and medicaid because we didn't have the money to pay for private care in home, my mother worked, and I lived and worked out of state. Grandma ended up in the last place she ever wanted to be-- a nursing home-- where they prolonged her life for another year. And she died hating my mother and me for putting her in a nursing home. Just to be clear, my mother and I are all that is left of that side of the family.

  Since going through what we went through with my grandmother, I don't put much stock in God. If God's will is what kept my grandmother alive, then it was God's will to torture my mother and me for two years with the overdose suicide attempts Grandma made. We blamed ourselves because we couldn't convince her we loved her regardless of the state of her body and we wanted her around because she meant something to us. It was also His will that she refused to see us or speak to us very much after we put her in the nursing home. If God played any role in this, it wasn't a positive one because Grandma was not playing a positive role in our lives at that time and allowing her to stay with us was an emotional rollercoaster and, in many ways, sheer HELL. If God is indeed a merciful God, then He would have put all three of us out of this misery a lot sooner. So, for these reasons, I say God shouldn't be invoked in this discussion.

  Furthermore, people who have never watched a relative or friend decline to the point where they don't want to live anymore and felt the anguish and torment that their suicide attempts cause, your opinions are based on moral and ethical hypotheticals, not real experience. While you are entitled to your opinion, it carries much less weight than those expressed by people who have been through it.

  I can say without hesitation that medicine prolongs life to a ridiculous point. If we can't physically do the things we need to do, then we're not living. If we can't physically do the things we want to do, then we aren't living. If we don't have the mental capacity to recognize the people who love us and who we love, we aren't living. Medicine has become Frankenstein science to a degree-- it's about controlling the creation of life and the length of life while paying lip service to quality of life. What good does is it to be pain free if you still can't do what you want to need to because your muscles don't work or you mind is shot to the point where you don't realize you need to do things?

  Medicine allows most of us to EXIST longer, not LIVE. And there is a huge difference between the two.

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  Posted by Mysterious Gryphon Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:22am PDT

  Both of my surviving grandparents are in the mid-nineties and doing very well. They both have as much of their minds as they ever did.

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  Posted by Brett Blumenthal - Sheer Balance Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:31am PDT

  fools_and_sages, I'm so sorry that you and your mother AND your grandmother had to go through that. Parkinsons is one of the worst diseases I've seen.

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  Posted by Angelina Thu Jul 2, 2009 7:41am PDT

  I work in a nursing facility so I see these patients on a daily basis, those who are old with Alzhiemers, Dementia, Parkinson's etc...and I can tell you that it is truly pitiful. Some are to the point that they are vegetables with no movement, speech, or control of bodily functions and you can only wonder what, if anything, they are thinking. Some of them are happy and grateful that they are alive but many want to be left alone and want to die. Some go on their own free will but many are placed in homes because their family can no longer care for them and they become angry, confused and saddened as to why they are there. They have worked, cared for and raised a family, lived on their own, controlled their lives and now they are left to the mercy of strangers to give them care, bath them, feed them, change them etc... Some caregivers are wonderful caring people but often times there are caregivers that are working only for money and can be very hateful and rough with the patients. In fact, there are several times that I have come home frustrated by those types of caregivers that I have told my husband that if I become to the point that I can no longer care for myself, give me a gun and 1 bullet and make sure my aim is precise.

  I have seen both sides of the coin and I can tell you there is good and bad but more often bad. Either way you look at it, it is heartbreaking. For the elderly that can continue to care for themselves it is a wonderful and rewarding life but for those that cannot it is somewhat sad. It leaves us something to think about as we age and as our parents age.

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  Posted by cindy Thu Jul 2, 2009 8:05am PDT

  We are kind enough to euthenize our animals, they dont have to suffer long. but our loved ones have to suffer sometimes, with no memory of who we are, or with constant painful diseases or other health problems. I usually say if I am ever a vegatable, or alzheimers or cant move and wipe my self, just pull the plug. Please! I dont want to live as long as I possibly can like that. If by the grace of God I live long and WELL, then so be it.

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  Posted by sassygr1 Thu Jul 2, 2009 8:14am PDT

  I don't think that too many people make it to 100 with major health problems. I don't think it is medicine that leads to very old age. I think it is good genes and lifestyle. My grandfather is going strong at 97, but he has always exercised, never smoked and never overeats. He is also a really mentally positive person, which I think may be the most important thing. I have seen both my grandmother and mother in law die from Alzheimers which is horrible. It is also fatal, so living to 100 with it would be pretty rare.

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  Posted by Rowdygirl Thu Jul 2, 2009 8:14am PDT

  Very thought provoking. I don't have children (hence: no forthcoming grandchildren) I'm divorced and as of now, have no plan to remarry. I'm 47 and have at least 20 years before I can even consider retirement. Due to the economy, I'm sure I will have to work until I die, no matter how old I am.

  In my case, a long life seems meaningless and depressing. What reason do I have to live to be 100?

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  Posted by LB Thu Jul 2, 2009 8:18am PDT

  Both of my grandparents are in their 80s. Recently, my grandmother broke her ankle, and she's had to be upstairs for 8 weeks with at least one of her children in the house at all times. My grandfather has no idea what's going on half the time. But they both seem happy and I think they both want to stick around to watch their grandchildren graduate high school and get married. I think it's just a personal preference.

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